Is it possible to divorce religion and politics from public education now? I think Alabama is a lost cause. Governor Ivey recently signed private school vouchers into law, possibly putting the final nail into the already sad state of public education in Alabama. Now, local politicians are calling for the closing of public libraries too. They have the Christian Nationalist support, and there’s a lot of them in Alabama.
So many Alabamians run on ignorance and fear these days. This speaks volumes for what public education has done for rural Alabamians especially. I went to a very liberal publicly-funded high school in Birmingham. I had a very unique education compared to most in my state. My twin brother went to the local public high school. I moved out of Alabama for several years. I traveled. He did not. He is now a Trump supporter. I am not. Same difference?
“Is it possible to divorce religion and politics from public education now?” Yes. I’m an optimist. In small communities, I think it will happen. In the past few years, there’s been an uptick.
I try to remain hopeful, but it is difficult in Alabama. We are in the Bible Belt. People here want religion in the school. More specifically, they want a specific kind of religion - Protestant. I definitely believe it’s possible in blue states. I’m in a whole different world. Alabama is going in the opposite direction with school vouchers. This money is going to primarily Christian schools, not secular ones. Politics is becoming even more heavily involved with the school system. The majority of Alabama citizens want this. So, maybe, it is not possible here or in the near future.
Yes. Change can be good. We don’t always get it right the first time. America is still relatively young. Our democracy is ever evolving. Democracy allows our differences to flourish creating an innovative society. I believe in live and let live for sure. I also believe that we our losing our communities. As more and more people leave the church, our communities have fractured. We have not figured out how to maintain communities without the church, and I believe that this will only become a bigger problem. With Republicans commandeering our freedoms and rights, they are, in turn, creating a homogeneous society. This isn’t good as we’re quickly learning. We need to find a balance. Too much difference and we lose our cohesion. Too much sameness and we lose our identities. I agree with you, that we need to start in our communities though. Maybe we need a complete redesign. I really like this idea of yours for more self-contained neighborhoods. We could have community gardens, a GP, a school, church (or not), pharmacy, hardware store, ect. We used to have this, but our government got too big for its britches, as my grandma used to say.
Yeah, and the problem is not just with government or religion, but the people that plan out subdivisions and cities: land developers. The typical subdivision is plain, boring houses, sidewalks, roads and parks. I’m not inspired by these places. They don’t seem to bring people together. Part of this has to do with garages placed on the front of our houses that block our view and interaction with the front yard and neighbors. I want to live in a neighborhood where more kids are playing in front yards and more adults have their kitchen windows on the front side of the house. I want community gathering places that are not religious, but full of discussion, book clubs, social activities, dances, parties, pick-up games, music, arts and crafts, and interaction of all types. Can we get the cars out of the way and design for social cohesion, community, biking, walking, safety and belonging? Less video games and social media, and more in person living?
I have to remind myself that I can’t fix public schools and don’t need to. I can do my part by not using them, sending my kids to private schools and encouraging others to do the same. I try to teach people about the First Amendment, that religion and government are a bad mix, but I think it might be best for some people to learn through experience and consequence. I can help some people, but others are impervious to argument. That’s nature. I’m okay with that as long as my family is free to choose another path.
I think you make some very good points. Maybe, public education was never the way to go in the first place, but that is what we’ve got. People are religious creatures, but people are also creatures of habit too. Taking away public education is a very scary concept. What will fall into its place? Something better or something worse? It remains to be seen. Relying on voluntary private donations to the poor scares me too. Mandatory donations then become regulated by the government, and we’re back at square one again with public education. And around and around we go.
Agreed that people are scared of these ideas, but the good news is that change is extremely slow. Public schools aren’t going away fast or everywhere. I advocate for allowing small communities to choose their own path. Live and let live. If people want voluntary socialism or public schools in their community that’s fine with me. We don’t all need to agree or go the same route. Each state and county can be different. Each city, each neighborhood, each HOA can be different. How about we just respect our differences and go different directions?
Is that not the purpose of school vouchers? From what I can see, school vouchers and school choice is not working out well in other states that have chosen to go this route. School vouchers were signed into law in Alabama just recently this year, so we will shall see. I believe families are given $7500 a year for each child. Don’t quote me on that though! This is not enough money for poor families to put their children into private schools. Also, most of these private schools are Christian with almost no regulations. I understand that we want religion and politics out of school, but where do we draw the line with the government involvement? I honestly don’t know. I don’t have the answers.
I can only speak for myself and my family. I don’t use public schools. I don’t support them in their current form. Maybe if they were limited to only helping the poorest families I would support them, but then again where would I draw the line in defining “poor” and “religion?” So I probably don’t even support public schools for the poor because that would open a can of worms in trying to answer these questions.
When I say “give money to low income families for education,” other questions emerge. Am I giving this money voluntarily? And to who am I giving it to? What can they use than money for? I would prefer that this giving be at the personal level, given voluntarily to individuals that I’m familiar with, per my discretion.
A big part of the problem here is that humans are religious creatures. Humans have evolved with religion, but the supernatural aspects of religion are obviously mistaken. So we need to discard the supernatural and keep the good aspects of religion. What are those good aspects? And how do we teach good character values?
For me this teaching starts with families, communities, neighborhoods, and schools all at the local level. At the federal and state level, giving people freedom to work things out at the local level is really important.
Since we don’t have all the answers and don’t agree on the initial steps we need to respect our differences, and give each other liberty to figure out where to go from here.
I think private schools can be much better than they currently are—offering many different pedagogies at much more affordable levels, but in order to do that we need to get rid of public schools.
Alabama is a very poor state. My family was poor when I was growing up. We could not afford private school. So, what happens to low income families when you take away public schools? This is my concern.
Very interesting, important questions to consider. Could you edit the following sentence to add the link, or post it here please?
"And an updated 1990 series right is here, staring Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ronald Reagan and David Friedman."
Thank you.
Is it possible to divorce religion and politics from public education now? I think Alabama is a lost cause. Governor Ivey recently signed private school vouchers into law, possibly putting the final nail into the already sad state of public education in Alabama. Now, local politicians are calling for the closing of public libraries too. They have the Christian Nationalist support, and there’s a lot of them in Alabama.
So many Alabamians run on ignorance and fear these days. This speaks volumes for what public education has done for rural Alabamians especially. I went to a very liberal publicly-funded high school in Birmingham. I had a very unique education compared to most in my state. My twin brother went to the local public high school. I moved out of Alabama for several years. I traveled. He did not. He is now a Trump supporter. I am not. Same difference?
“Is it possible to divorce religion and politics from public education now?” Yes. I’m an optimist. In small communities, I think it will happen. In the past few years, there’s been an uptick.
I try to remain hopeful, but it is difficult in Alabama. We are in the Bible Belt. People here want religion in the school. More specifically, they want a specific kind of religion - Protestant. I definitely believe it’s possible in blue states. I’m in a whole different world. Alabama is going in the opposite direction with school vouchers. This money is going to primarily Christian schools, not secular ones. Politics is becoming even more heavily involved with the school system. The majority of Alabama citizens want this. So, maybe, it is not possible here or in the near future.
Yes. Change can be good. We don’t always get it right the first time. America is still relatively young. Our democracy is ever evolving. Democracy allows our differences to flourish creating an innovative society. I believe in live and let live for sure. I also believe that we our losing our communities. As more and more people leave the church, our communities have fractured. We have not figured out how to maintain communities without the church, and I believe that this will only become a bigger problem. With Republicans commandeering our freedoms and rights, they are, in turn, creating a homogeneous society. This isn’t good as we’re quickly learning. We need to find a balance. Too much difference and we lose our cohesion. Too much sameness and we lose our identities. I agree with you, that we need to start in our communities though. Maybe we need a complete redesign. I really like this idea of yours for more self-contained neighborhoods. We could have community gardens, a GP, a school, church (or not), pharmacy, hardware store, ect. We used to have this, but our government got too big for its britches, as my grandma used to say.
Yeah, and the problem is not just with government or religion, but the people that plan out subdivisions and cities: land developers. The typical subdivision is plain, boring houses, sidewalks, roads and parks. I’m not inspired by these places. They don’t seem to bring people together. Part of this has to do with garages placed on the front of our houses that block our view and interaction with the front yard and neighbors. I want to live in a neighborhood where more kids are playing in front yards and more adults have their kitchen windows on the front side of the house. I want community gathering places that are not religious, but full of discussion, book clubs, social activities, dances, parties, pick-up games, music, arts and crafts, and interaction of all types. Can we get the cars out of the way and design for social cohesion, community, biking, walking, safety and belonging? Less video games and social media, and more in person living?
I have to remind myself that I can’t fix public schools and don’t need to. I can do my part by not using them, sending my kids to private schools and encouraging others to do the same. I try to teach people about the First Amendment, that religion and government are a bad mix, but I think it might be best for some people to learn through experience and consequence. I can help some people, but others are impervious to argument. That’s nature. I’m okay with that as long as my family is free to choose another path.
I think you make some very good points. Maybe, public education was never the way to go in the first place, but that is what we’ve got. People are religious creatures, but people are also creatures of habit too. Taking away public education is a very scary concept. What will fall into its place? Something better or something worse? It remains to be seen. Relying on voluntary private donations to the poor scares me too. Mandatory donations then become regulated by the government, and we’re back at square one again with public education. And around and around we go.
Agreed that people are scared of these ideas, but the good news is that change is extremely slow. Public schools aren’t going away fast or everywhere. I advocate for allowing small communities to choose their own path. Live and let live. If people want voluntary socialism or public schools in their community that’s fine with me. We don’t all need to agree or go the same route. Each state and county can be different. Each city, each neighborhood, each HOA can be different. How about we just respect our differences and go different directions?
Is that not the purpose of school vouchers? From what I can see, school vouchers and school choice is not working out well in other states that have chosen to go this route. School vouchers were signed into law in Alabama just recently this year, so we will shall see. I believe families are given $7500 a year for each child. Don’t quote me on that though! This is not enough money for poor families to put their children into private schools. Also, most of these private schools are Christian with almost no regulations. I understand that we want religion and politics out of school, but where do we draw the line with the government involvement? I honestly don’t know. I don’t have the answers.
I can only speak for myself and my family. I don’t use public schools. I don’t support them in their current form. Maybe if they were limited to only helping the poorest families I would support them, but then again where would I draw the line in defining “poor” and “religion?” So I probably don’t even support public schools for the poor because that would open a can of worms in trying to answer these questions.
When I say “give money to low income families for education,” other questions emerge. Am I giving this money voluntarily? And to who am I giving it to? What can they use than money for? I would prefer that this giving be at the personal level, given voluntarily to individuals that I’m familiar with, per my discretion.
A big part of the problem here is that humans are religious creatures. Humans have evolved with religion, but the supernatural aspects of religion are obviously mistaken. So we need to discard the supernatural and keep the good aspects of religion. What are those good aspects? And how do we teach good character values?
For me this teaching starts with families, communities, neighborhoods, and schools all at the local level. At the federal and state level, giving people freedom to work things out at the local level is really important.
Since we don’t have all the answers and don’t agree on the initial steps we need to respect our differences, and give each other liberty to figure out where to go from here.
I think private schools can be much better than they currently are—offering many different pedagogies at much more affordable levels, but in order to do that we need to get rid of public schools.
Alabama is a very poor state. My family was poor when I was growing up. We could not afford private school. So, what happens to low income families when you take away public schools? This is my concern.
How about giving money to low income families to use for education?