Questions About Justice
Dereck Chauvin and George Floyd
Nothing about what I’m about to say should be interpreted as dismissing crimes committed by Dereck Chauvin in the death of George Floyd. My main goal here is to create space for respectful dialogue on this topic.
I wrote the following comment at Glenn Loury’s Substack yesterday in response to the noble conversation between Loury and John McWhorter regarding the Chauvin-Floyd incident. I wanted to continue this line of thinking here at Trim to Truth. I wrote
There are three big issues here.
1) Justice due to Chauvin: did we get it right? I honestly don’t know. Maybe a lighter sentence is in order, considering the actions of Floyd prior to the maximum restraint, and Floyd’s apparent poor physical state and clearly poor mental state? I don’t have the full picture, nor do I have the time to get the full picture, so best I can recommend is to keep talking about this.
2) The bigger picture: how do we get the incentives right for men and boys so that men aren’t in a position of being arrested in the first place?
3) Policing: how can we improve policing AND improve law and order?
Let me add the following to this comment.
I believe that Dereck Chauvin was out of control in his restraint of George Floyd. For whatever reason, he did not do the right thing. He did not show self-control. He did not position and restrain Floyd in a way that would make clear to an unbiased jury that Floyd had an unrestricted opportunity to breathe. We cannot dismiss the fact that Chauvin may have restricted Floyd’s breathing to such an extent that it caused or contributed to his death.
Why didn’t Chauvin do the right thing? Why didn’t he exhibit self-control?
Was it due to Chauvin’s poor training?
Was it due to Chauvin’s bad habits?
Had Chauvin become so riled up by Floyd’s resistance and lack of cooperation—prior to the restraint—that he had lost all self-control, including his ability to think clearly?
Was Chauvin so antagonized by the crowd in front of him that he became defiant or distracted?
We wish that he could have exhibited more self-control, but he didn’t.
By imprisoning Dereck Chauvin, it encourages others to do better; to exhibit self-control; to be better trained and prepared; and to develop better habits.
Why was he using this restraint?
We’ll probably never know the answers to these questions and we can’t change what happened.
But what we can and should do better at is to create a culture in which we can discuss topics like this respectfully.
So with these thoughts in mind, what should Chauvin’s punishment be, considering Floyd’s mental and physical state? Considering Floyd’s lack of cooperation?
What should Chauvin’s punishment be, considering that George Floyd had agency, leading up to that restraint? Was George Floyd unaware of his health condition? Did he wittingly wrestle with police officers knowing that he was in poor health and maybe even in a fragile condition?
Can we be sure that George Floyd’s health wasn’t so compromised by longterm drug use, and/or any immediate drugs in his system that mild restriction to his breathing—in the aftermath of the wrestling match—would have caused his death? There’s no way to know.
What do we know about the type of drugs and amount of drugs in Floyd’s system? Was it a combination of uppers and downers?
What do we know about the condition of Floyd’s heart, and his longterm drug use?
Did Floyd die of a heart attack? If so, what caused that heart attack?
How do we know for sure?
Dereck Chauvin should have done better.
The most charitable view of Dereck Chauvin is that he took a big risk—knowing that Floyd was in fragile condition—he took a bet that Floyd would survive the restraint. He lost that bet. He should have been more prudent.
As Joyce Benenson teaches us in her book Warriors and Worries: The Survival of the Sexes, compared to women, men aren’t known for prudence. Men show a great deal more anger. I believe Dereck Chauvin was angry. Part of that anger was caused by the wrestling match between Floyd and the officers. That anger contributed to George Floyd’s death.
But what percentage of male police officers—working similar beats, with similar training—would have done the same or worse than Dereck Chauvin in that situation? 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%?
Are we to lock-up Dereck Chauvin for 20+ years for this crime?
Justice is getting was is due to you. 20+ years is a long-time. Is this a just sentence? Or would something less be more appropriate? How about 15 years?
This is not only important to Dereck Chauvin, Dereck Chauvin’s family, and George Floyd’s family—it’s important to all of us. We want to get justice right so that we promote learning, virtue, order and accountability.
I truly don’t know how long Dereck Chauvin’s sentence should be, but I do know that justice emerges from respectful dialogue. So my goal here is to promote respectful dialogue.
I hope this post inspires at least one other person to promote respectful dialogue and learning.